Much can be learned from 30 years of watching the international hacker community develop, or a decade of watching China do the same. From the broadcast area of the 30th Chaos Communication Congress in Hamburg, Germany, this week I am joined by internet audio pioneer Tim Pritlove and the guru of all things blinking and TV turning off, Mitch Altman. Together we discuss just what is and has happened at this world famous event this year and what it all means for the big picture of work, life, and tube messaging.